Mr. Hostile: A Hostile Gap Theory Call!
Bodie
Hodge, M.Sc., B.Sc., PEI
Biblical Authority Ministries, September 23, 2025 (Donate)
Years ago, I had a fellow call up who told the receptionist that he had “one question about dinosaurs”. When the receptionist rang me to for some advice, I thought we that we could send him a complimentary copy of a booklet on dinosaurs that would answer a number of related questions on the topic. So, the receptionist asked for his address so we can send him a complimentary booklet on dinosaurs, he refused and really wanted to talk to someone. That threw up a red flag to me.
So, I said to send his call over, but I told her I thought this was a “set up”. I answered with my name and he didn’t respond with his but he said “he had a one question about dinosaurs.” But he asked several about dinosaurs and I could tell this gent knew a bit about the Bible, and ministry as well as the biblical answers we provide. Nevertheless, he tried not to let on that he knew much—yet he knew each answer as I was saying them.
But quickly, he turned the conversation to gap theory (where he tries to take geological evolution which is millions of years and cosmological evolution like aspects of big bang and place them between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2). He heightened his voice and began cutting me off quite often and aggressively. Clearly, he didn’t want answers but wanted to assert his opinions on the subject.
Apparently, he had talked to another person at the ministry before, which means he was obviously familiar with the ministry and he knew exactly what we believed. So, what he was asking was indeed a set up. He was calling because he was mad and wanted to take it out on us.
As he began to push old earth ideas such as gap theory around as the truth, I kindly responded about the Hebrew waw disjunctive to refute the alleged millions of years split between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I discussed death before sin, which is a major theological problem. I also pointed out that if Satan fell between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 then Satan, in his sinful state, would be very good and sin would be very good. He really didn’t want to talk much about this but kept trying to change the subject.
I then brought up Mark 10:6 and that gap theorists have no choice but to say Jesus was in error on this point (Jesus says human male and female came at the beginning of creation which is the basis for marriage). He said he didn’t want to talk about that either. He was avoiding the major theological problems in his professed gap theory worldview.
I could tell he was blatantly angry at this point and didn’t want to learn but had the mindset to attack. He tried cutting me off on all sort of stuff at this point. I had no choice but to step up to the challenge riposte method to counter the way he was attacking—I was going to be direct in response.
What he really wanted to push was that the sun (and somewhat the moon) and stars were allegedly created on Day 1. Of course, gap theory people must have this for their alleged previous creation.
Further, he tried to use the laws of thermodynamics to say matter could neither be created nor destroyed effectively saying God couldn’t create them on Day 4. I pointed out that this law works within the universe and God, who created the universe had every right to create or destroy and is not bound by His created laws. He was trying to appeal to this law for uniformitarian sakes and make God bound by such a law! I pointed out that the God of the Bible is not bound to His creation, but beyond it.
I asked if he really thought God cannot create. He really struggled to answer this and I asked again, but to no avail. It was almost like he was appealing to an infinite and eternal creation and God was bound to this universe—which is not the God of the Bible! His argument was that God somehow did manage to created [or more properly move into place] all the heavenly host (stars, sun, etc.) on Day 1 and God is merely stating on Day 4 that they are to give light on the earth. So I asked—what did God make on Day 4?
He struggled with this one too. I pointed out that in his theology, God essentially rested on Day 4 and that is inconsistent with the Bible. Finally, he said that God made the moon on Day 4, but then I said that contradicts his worldview where said these things were made on Day 1 as part of the heavens.
His lousy counter was that God basically had it in his back pocket and flung it and gravitational forces grabbed it to go around the earth. Thus, I reiterated that the theology he was presenting really had God resting on Day 4 and not making anything.
He wanted to discuss the light so I pointed out that the light source on Day 1 was simply unknown to us since God doesn’t inform us what it is. He said then that is a contradiction in our worldview and I ask how so? He really couldn’t prove his claim.
I pointed out that whatever that light source was doesn’t matter as the sun took over those responsibilities on Day 4. Though he was adamant that the light was the sun—but I pointed out that light can come from sources other than the sun. I told him I have flashlight and it gives off light. He really didn’t have much to counter with!
Then we got to the crux of his issue and why he was mad. He said that it was due to people like us that kids are walking away from the faith because we say that God made the sun on Day 4 and plants can’t survive without the sun. I came back and said plants can easily survive without the sun for a day (12 hours—it happens all the time as the earth rotates), so why is that a problem?
He said kids are walking away from the faith because we say the sun was made on Day 4 and people see through this logic—even his own kids have walked away from the faith! I asked on what basis do non-Christians have to say logic even exists in their worldview; they must borrow from the Bible to even make a case. I received no answer when I pointed this out.
Then I corrected him and said that the reason kids are walking away from the faith is due to Christian leaders (and parents) who say you can trust millions of years or evolution, and not trust Genesis as it is written (hypocrisy). Essentially Christian leaders (in some cases, their own parents) are saying the Bible is not true and when kids believe the Bible is not trustworthy, it is because of them.
Kids can read Genesis and they do not get big bang, evolution, and millions of years out of it. I pointed out that there was a book with stats addressing why kids walked away from Christianity called Already Gone that gives these reasons from the kids who have walked away themselves![1] I said I would send him a copy. But he apparently didn’t want one. He gave me no name and no address.
He continued to want to argue about moving things around in Genesis 1 and attacking biblical creation without much support (his mere arbitrary opinion). I asked a number of times where these things were in the Bible and his response fell short over and over. He was pushing strange views in an unchristian-like manner but obviously not wanting to trust Genesis the way it is written. He refused to listen and continued with just being “nasty”. I even asked several times: “why not just trust what Genesis says?” and repeatedly, he never wanted to answer.
After all of his aggressiveness and attacks, I decided to call him on something. I said didn’t you tell the receptionist that you had “one question on dinosaurs” and when I answered didn’t you also tell me you had “one question on dinosaurs”. He agreed. I asked “did you lie to us?” He seemed flustered as he knew I caught him in this lie. He knew that he called up for another reason.
He changed the subject to talk about something else; I asked again “did you lie to us?” Again, he wanted to the change the subject and continued attacking. I realized at this point we were getting nowhere. Though interestingly, he did not deny that was intentionally lying to us.
So a long story short, after a very heated discussion about these and other things in Genesis 1, I had to tell him this conversation was over. I wished him the best and he acted as though he did nothing wrong.
It is sad to hear when he did not want to trust the Bible and blame everyone else for the problem of his children walking away from the faith. This is not the first call I’ve received from someone whose children had walked away from the faith and they wanted to blame us.
All the while they were telling their children not to believe the Bible as written but to accept many of the secular claims (like millions of years, big bang, or evolution), and then they wonder why their kids stop trusting the rest of the Bible.
So often this is the case. It is the children in the next generation that suffer by walking away when their parents or Christian leaders compromise the faith. And yet, they want to blame others instead of repenting and getting back to the Word of God. It makes you wonder what kind of example a parent could set for their children if they repent and got back to the authority of the Word of God; and openly told their children they were that they had been wrong about Genesis and origins.
How powerful would it be to their kids, if they confessed that the Bible really is true from the beginning! I’d suggest that many of the children would have a new respect for God and His Word as well as a new found respect for their parent who had been compromised.
But be praying for this man. We didn’t know his name but God does. Even though this person had premeditated to call and lie to us just to attack us in an effort to blame us, God knows what his underlying issue is. Be praying that he will learn to trust God, over secular ideas and repent.
And
this is reminder to all of us. It is time to recognize the real culprit—sin! It
is time to get back to the authority of the Word of God. And it is time to do
it for the sake of this next generation.
□
Bodie Hodge, Ken Ham's son in law, has been an apologist since 1998 helping out in various churches and running an apologetics website. He spent 21 years working at Answers in Genesis as a speaker, writer, and researcher as well as a founding news anchor for Answers News. He was also head of the Oversight Council.
Bodie launched Biblical Authority Ministries in 2015 as a personal website and it was organized officially in 2025 as a 501(c)(3). He has spoken on multiple continents and hosts of US states in churches, colleges, and universities. He is married with four children.
Originally at Answers in Genesis; Edited; Republished by permission.
